Why are most of the FEZ boards discontinued?

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It is incredible that the majority of the FEZ boards (Panda, Domino, Mini, etc) disappear all at once and you do not offer a replacement for them.

The FEZ Panda II came out 3 years ago and I developed a huge project based on it.
We bought about 50 boards and they are still in use.
There is no board that can replace the Panda2 with its 52 output pins.
It is a shame that a product has a life time of ridiculous 3 years !

But the biggest shame is that you can search the entire forum or the catalog for “discontinued” and you will not even find the smallest explanation WHY the hell all these great boards disappear all at once !

You don’t inform your clients what is going on.
It is a shame, a shame, and a shame again!

The USBizi chip is still in production.
The .NET framework still exists.
I cannot see any reason why you stop producing these boards.

For me the only conclusion is that GHI electronics is a company in that I cannot trust.
Products do not even live 3 years.
I will have to search alternatives from other companies that do not treat their clients like this.

I discontinue beeing a client of GHI electronics.

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@ Elmue - Contact GHI directly. As of early last year, it was still possible to get Panda II boards, but with a minimum order quantity. See this thread for details:

https://www.ghielectronics.com/community/forum/topic?id=16776

Would also recommend having a look at Cerbuino Bee:

https://www.ghielectronics.com/catalog/product/351

Similar form factor, but includes 3 Gadgeteer sockets (you can break them out using Extender or Breakout modules if you want to access individual pins, and an XBee socket.

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@ Elmue - still manufacture these boards by the hundreds. Just send a PO with what you need :slight_smile:

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This is great to know. Thanks.

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Hello

The Cerbuino cannot replace the Panda2.
It has another conector.

And what if I change my project to use Cerbuino instead of Panda and in 3 years the Cerbuino is suddenly discontinued without any logical reason ??

Nice to know that currently one can still order the Panda2.

BUT:
1.)
Next year you will stop producing them definitely ?
Or in two years ?
Or in 3 years ?
I cannot trust in GHI Electronics anymore.

2.)
Why do you force the people to buy a minimum order quantity ?
Is that your buisiness logic ?
Produce a product for 3 years and then force all those who use it to buy it in large amounts ?

Imagine that:
My car has broken. I need a new wheel. But the car seller forces me to buy a minimum of 15 wheels.
That is ridiculous!

3.)
None of the answers answers my original question:

WHY are these boards not sold normally anymore ?

It is so cheap to produce a board in China.
You should sell them as long as NXP produces the CPU !

And even if the CPU is not produced anymore you could make a Panda3 with a new chip but the same board layout.

This is the way other companies assure that clients can trust in them.

I’am using a RS485 card from Sealevel electronics.
When Sealevel removed a card in the past they replaced it with a new model that is compatible.

But GHI tells their clients that they don’t care about them.

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It’s unfortunate that you feel you can’t trust us anymore, however as technology changes so do the products. However, all SoMs are readily available for years, minimum of 5. The boards are open source and you are free to manufacture them anywhere you want.

Comparing a car to a mainboard is not a fair comparison, the business models are quite different. And it is quite common to buy products with MOQs. In fact almost every raw part we buy comes with an MOQ from our vendors.

Again, as technology changes so do products. This is the same with any business, from cell phones to laptops. We have our in-house production line and do not use China for manufacturing.

Also, the boards that you mention in your post were discontinued a few years ago and have been replaced with better boards. And if you read the news you will see where all of these have been discontinued and what products were used to replace them. It it quite unfair to say “You don’t inform your clients what is going on.”

uALFAT was an active product for almost 8 years. The EMX SoM has been around for almost 4. ALFAT has been around for 3 and just recently updated with new features. The FEZ Spider mainboard has been around 3 or so years with no indication of going anywhere.

If you go to the “NEWS” forum board, you will find most of the information that you were not able to find in your search.
https://www.ghielectronics.com/community/forum/topic?id=12968
https://www.ghielectronics.com/community/forum/board?id=15

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Ouch! That’s completely not fair to say, or appropriate for a commercial user. :hand:

Did you know that recently Windows 7 has reached the end of it mainstream support just a bit over 5 years in production. That’s from a company that made billions of dollars out of the product, would you say its unfair by them??

Also they offer extended support for another 5 years, that’s basically if you buy several hundred/thousand licences, which is kind of similar to what GHI provides you.

Im assuming you wrote that out of anger, but you should’ve kept that to yourself and ask something constructive. You should see me how I yell when my almost 10 year old car breaks down. I just wish I had GHI like support for it. :wink:

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@ Elmue - what commercial product project you needed GHI for and came short? We had manufactured products that were discontinued years ago for many customers, on countless occasions! We try to push for new technologies but if an old things is what you need then we would happily make it for you. I am really not sure what we can do to make your day better, so just let us know how :slight_smile:

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I also would like to point out that it was mentioned before that upgrading to newer NETMF on USBizi leaves almost no space for user code. That is another reason to move on with other boards if you want latest NETMF. However, the SDK is still available for USBizi boards and GHI Support staff and community is helping where it can with technical questions/issues.

I would rather built a momentum on the forum to get a new Panda II compatible STI based board designed and produced. GHI listens, that is how Cerb40 was born.

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While agree that most of your arguments are invalid, I’ll give you a big +1 for a Panda3!

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+100 from me :slight_smile: there are reasons for why it is not on the catalog yet but this was the plan for a long time. … soon my friend, soon :slight_smile:

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@ Gus - Why do you keep telling our secrets? :open_mouth:

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@ Gary - You should sue Gus for breaking the NDA :smiley:

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@ Reinhard Ostermeier - lol, if I did that then I am afraid he won’t sign my check anymore and kick me out of the corner office overlooking the golf course.

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@ Gary - You have to know what your responsibly is :whistle:

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@ Reinhard Ostermeier - well I should with my wife, she normally lets me know what my responsibilities are! 8)

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You mean this golf course?

:slight_smile:

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Now the discussion converted into bla bla.

Coming back to the subject:

The Panda 2 lived for 3 years then it suddenly died.

For me it is perfect.
I dont need a faster processor.
I dont need more RAM.

Again, as technology changes so do products.
This is the same with any business, from cell phones to laptops

This comparison is not valid.
I can easily replace a cell phone.

But I have developed a big project based on Panda2.
If I would have to change to Cerbuino I would have to change

1.) The hardware (different connector)
2.) The software. My RLP code will surely not run anymore. Neither all the tweaks with processor registers to get functionality that is unavailable in C#

Our project is also in use in other countries.
Do you think it is easy to recall these devices to change them entirely because replacement parts become unavailable ?

If you go to the “NEWS” forum board, you will find most of the information
that you were not able to find in your search.
https://www.ghielectronics.com/community/forum/topic?id=12968
https://www.ghielectronics.com/community/forum/board?id=15

The second link does not work and the first does not tell much new.

Put yourself into someone searching why Panda 2 is discontinued.
How will it come into your mind to search for “The future of Panda2” ?
It is past now !
I searched very long and did not find anything.

You should still list the Panda2 in the Catalog with the note

  1. that it is discontinued
  2. WHY it is discontinued
  3. That it still can be ordered for old developments.
    4.) That it should be replaced with Cerbuino for new developments

This is a lack of your site.
It disappeared completely without ANY note.

And it should be found searching in Google for the words “Panda2 discontinued”

that upgrading to newer NETMF on USBizi leaves almost no space for user code.

OK.
I have no problem if you tell the old users who still use Panda2 in old projects that they should continue with the framework that they are currently using.

And new projects are encouraged to be developed on Cerbuino.

Did you know that recently Windows 7 has reached the end of it mainstream

This is very bad argument.
We all know that Microsoft cares a damn about customers wishes.
Microsoft is heap of shit.
Do you want to compare yourself with the worst ?

If you have plans to develop a Panda3, why dont you discontinue Panda 2 AFTER Panda3 is available ?

As I told: There are other companies like Sealevel who have hardware products since more than a decade. They updated them with newer chips but they stay compatible.
Why can they but GHI cannot ?

And finally:
My question is still not answered !

Although USBizi may not be up to date anymore,
why not sell Panda2 and Cerbuino in parallel ?

Arduino is also an old development but still available.

Are the production costs of Panda2 higher than your income with that board ?
I dont believe that.

Your arguments could not convince me yet.

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That is some harsh language. We don’t use that here in the forum.

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@ Architect - Not exactly true is what you say.