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What does this news 'inspire' to you?


#1

Does it sounds like if Win10 would be the next NETMF stage ?


#2

The purspose is to inspire shareholders not us. Shareholders have not heard of netMF.


#3

Modification and emphasis is mine :slight_smile:


#4

Maybe you’re right, but the last that told the shareholders that Win8 would be available on IoT is now out…


#5

The problem with the statements that were made is that they are not true.

“General purpose computing is going to run on 200 plus billion sensors. We’ve architected Windows where it can run on everything.”

There is no version, nor will there ever be a version of Windows OS that will run on a low power wireless sensor device. There might be Microsoft software running on it in some form (.netmf). But not Windows. Why do you need “General purpose computing” running on a sensor? An Intel Edison class device is NOT a sensor device.

Either Nadella does not understand what IoT or embedded electronics is, or he is just ignoring it so he can make a big statement that will get published.

Maybe I am just being overly critical and we aren’t defining our terms the same way but statements like those frustrate me. If his intention was to make investors happy it is still wrong. He could have just as easily explained that Microsoft is working on products and services that work at the sensor level that will integrate cleanly with Windows and Azure. If he really wants to get a share of the “200 plus billion sensor” market he needs to put more resources on the only Microsoft’s product that has any chance of running on a sensor, .NETMF.


#6

@ skeller -

As Embedded Linux running on ARM is a subset of Linux, why Microsoft could not make Embedded Win10 a subset of the whole, for ARM ?

The only difference with NETMF is the consideration of a BSP based system in the case of Win10, and for a developer like me that is not a system engineer, it is a real problem !


#7

@ LouisCpro -

ARM is a very generic term. There are 30 MHz ARM Cortex-M0+ with 16KB Flash and 4KB RAM. There is no Linux version that will run on that small of an ARM processor. Yet that is precisely the kind of processor that would run a sensor. (An ARM Cortex-M0 is really too small to run .NETMF too.)

I agree with you it would be nice if Embedded Windows 10, or whatever name they end up give it, was a subset of the mainline OS. But even with that, Embedded Win 10 or Embedded Linux will not be used at the sensor level. At the gateway level, yes.

I think the confusion is a result of semantics and range of meaning for terms like IoT, Embedded, ARM, etc. They mean different things to different people.


#8

@ skeller - Fully agree with you on tiny ARM architecture.


#9

I will only say one more thing. Read all the press on the same interview as you may well get a different reading that helps you see the real message.


#10

maybe he is not talking about Windows OS, and he is talking about Windows Ecosystem ;), just saying :whistle: then his statement is TRUE :slight_smile:


#11

I am sure there are minimum requirements for Windows 10. Some fancy “sensor” might be able to meet the requirements.


#12

Let me see if I can help you all resolve this mystery :slight_smile:

somehow as time passes we tend to actually get spoiled and forget how we once had an OS called Graphical Windows 3.0 that could Run on an 8086… here are the actual system requirements :

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.0#System_requirements


The official system requirements for Windows 3.0:
8086/8088 processor or better
384K of free conventional memory (real mode), 1MB (Standard Mode), or 2MB (Enhanced Mode)[12]
Hard disk with 6-7MB of free space
CGA/EGA/VGA/Hercules/8514/A/XGA graphics and an appropriate and compatible monitor
MS-DOS version 3.1 or higher[13]

may I point out that it only required 384K of free memory and a 16Bit processor that would run between 5 MHz to 10 MHz :think:

Now call me crazy but if MS has built an OS that could run on that a 16bit 5Mhz processor, then they could definitely build a better one that would run on a 100Mhz + processor ::slight_smile:

So in reality MS does have an OS that can run on low processors and i’m sure that code is sitting in a vault somewhere in Redmond, and someone may just need to get it adapt it to ARM and voila :slight_smile:


#13

Nadella is merely trying to hitch Windows 10 to the IoT hype bandwagon (which is currently the biggest hype bandwagon around: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2819918 ). Previous hitchings have been to things like “cloud computing” and “big data”.

Have a little pride in what we do here. We don’t NEED an OS. We run our hardware and software for a year on less current than a hypothetical Windows 10 Embedded would take to boot once. Where “Windows Embedded” devices run for hours on a battery charge, we run ours for months. When people say “OMG WINDOWS 10 IOT EMBEDDED SENSOR DEVICE” we just smile, nod, and go on doing great things.


#14

[quote=“godefroi”]
Nadella is merely trying to hitch Windows 10 to the IoT hype bandwagon[/quote]

I agree to an extent, but there’s truth to the statement – Galilleo / Edison. Don’t they run a window-less version of Windows?

Can’t they constitute an “embedded” Windows 10 device with a sensor?


The definition of “embedded” is rather ambiguous and has different meanings to different people.

Some consider signage controllers, kiosks, etc as embedded. These are plugged into mains and don’t need to run 1 month on battery.

Are devices built around RaspPI embedded devices? Do they have an OS? Do they run for a month on a battery?


Obviously the netmf version of “embedded” has an entirely different meaning.


#15

I think the key point is “the IOT will need an OS.” So, he is not talking about NetMF , it sounds like Windows Embedded. I have worked with Windows Embedded and it does have (difficult) ways of interfacing to any sensors or hardware you want. Of course, so does standard desktop Windows.


#16

@ mhectorgato - Edison runs Linux: https://communities.intel.com/docs/DOC-23192 Galileo as well, as far as I can tell.

Indeed “embedded” means a lot of different things, as does “IoT”. When a CEO is in marketing mode, pretty much nothing he says means anything. He’s just fueling up the hype train.


#17

Windows On Devices has images for Galileo. I suspect that Edison will eventually as well as it’s, iirc, dual core Atom based. Also it fits in the Windows everywhere mantra.


#18

I used WindowsXP embedded nearly 10years ago. That could run with or without a GUI. I’m not really sure what’s different now.


#19

Can’t wait to learn about the details, engineering details not marketing details.so far, I think this is a joke! I could be wrong.


#20

I guess an MRI machine can be considered a sensor. :whistle: