Modern G30/G80 Alternatives?

Hi guys,

I moved a while away from using the solutions provided by GHI when the changes started around TinyCLR / .Net MF. In the meantime I used basic PIC’s and some Arduino’s, but it never was so flexible and complete as .Net MF. When I look at the completed developments of TinyCLR I am very happy to see how mature this product is now and I have ordered recently a development board to get working again with this stuff, and have already a project in mind.

Unfortunately, I found out that the G30 / G80 / G120 aren’t part of the current catalogue anymore, and there are at the moment no replacements at the same price level. I used a lot of these modules in hobby projects for me and help others with it, for example to get some automation in R/C trucks. For several applications I can easily switch to the SCM20100 and the price difference is acceptable, but also a lot of applications that just require one or more small modules, instead of the larger provided by the SCM20100. In these applications, the SCM20100 is way too powerfull (and also expensive). So I am curious if there are any plans to bring back one or more SoM-modules in this lowest price segment for these simpler solutions, or that I need to look for a solution from other suppliers for these applications?

Wout

SITCore gives you a LOT more value for the buck, I am curious what you think the right price is and what you expect in return. SC100 has more features than G400 and is 30 times faster than G120.

So please tell us more to help us clarify the website better or plan for future products.

If I wasn’t clear, what we need is a “I want to pay $??? And it should have xyz…etc”

Hi Gus,

Thanks for the very fast response to start with.

I understand what you say, and I see it for sure that the SCM-modules are way more powerfull than the previous G-series modules. However, not every application require such a powerful module, and I combine most of the time a couple of modules in a single project, mostly to reduce the amount of cables used to get the logic at the right place.

For this latest situation, the G30/G80 were at the ideal price point. To make that more absolute, a usable price point would be at 18 to 20 dollars, like half of the SCM10200 to fill the gap in the lower segment. This module really doesn’t need to be as powerful, but in my case it will be mostly used as a sort of breakout module with some logic on itself and should have the capability to communicatie with a couple of other modules (for example a SCM20260 or 20100). It needs to have about 16 GPIO (of course with interrupts), at least 4 PWM, and one or two channels support for data buses (so UART, SPI, I2C CAN, etc). Things like networking, display support, file storage, USB host/client, etc are all not necessary in this module. If something has this requirement, I have no problem to purchase another SCM20100.

Hope this clarifies it a bit?

Until I convince Gus to do a smaller Tinyclr port then the best option is netmf 4.4 on a small STM32 :blush:

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FEZ Stick is $25. Is it really worth losing all the power you get with SITCore to pay $20, that is $5 cheaper? I mean if we had a $18 board today that doesn’t have networking and graphics support (like G30 didn’t) would you pick that over $25 FEZ Stick?

@Justin same question goes to you.

411 powered board draws alot less current.

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Yes but how many will buy it over SITCore? Something to think about.

scale up and down are always a challenge (it has been since ~2005 when I first started looking at GHI and Fez).

I can see why someone who wanted a loosely coupled system would want independent nodes and at $18 vs $25, you get 4 vs 3 of them for roughly the same outlay, and that could make a difference.

I don’t mind hybrid solutions, like a 411 or similar powered uC as the “tiny” nodes and a smarter central brain, but every time you do that you fragment the programming - and while netmf 4.4 and tinyclr aren’t worlds apart, you increase the risk of someone looking for a scalable solution (hate to say it, but say Arduino platform scaling way down to cheap-as processors and up to a mid range platform, kinda makes some sense).

I don’t have an answer, but can see the need… especially for the “throw away” level sensor units that don’t have the same code protection and networking requirements that others might, where if your node was stolen and your code stolen from it, all they get is it’s node ID and some simple sensor-reading code. One size will never feel right for all scenarios

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love this part of words especially for the “throw away”
which is really used in my projects it hold as you said an minimum {esp-01 , bme280 sensor , stm32f411cg mcu} without care about this can be stolen because
the main work is to make as much as stripped driver and test of realibility of driver. in my case .

but SiteCORE are more and more powerfully and for little higher price it make me more acceptable than above i said because now with FEZ STICK-s I can do "everything i needed.

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Am I hearing that SITCore is super awesome and it is not disposable/throw away product? And we need to make a cheap not good product to throw away?

I am kidding of course :grin:

Im using 3 levels at the moment, 4th maybe in future)

  1. ATTiny85 (analog sensor and 2 PWM mosfet outputs)
  2. Arduino Nano + RF chip (fake 2$ versions that are DOA like 30% of the time, but oh well)
  3. medium to complex stuff SCM20100 (no HMI)
  4. SCM20260 - HMI

Maybe if there is a TinyCLR Lite version or something that would only have GPIO, I2C, SPI, UART and a chip that would not cost more then 10$ when sold from GHI. That would be awesome

This I agree with. $10 vs $25 is worth the efforts and giving up all high end features to only get “pin level control” is also a reasonable ask. You can see the list under tutorials.

Instead of “secure IoT core”, we would have “Tiny IoT core”, introducing TITCore :nerd_face:

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Would you publish the code on Pornhub instead of Github ?

Quite a lot of responses here when I didn’t check in for a day. The Fez Stick did I notice, but it is as described above already, it is not really a ‘use a lot and throw away’-device, it is just a bit too expensive. The $18 - $20 was more thought from a perspective which would be feasible to create something at a lower segment. To put this price tag in comparison with the Fez Stick: if I order for instance 10 of these, the price difference would already be quite big ($180 vs. $250). And I know that the Fez stick has a lot more capabilities, but I will not going to use them.

The price as described above of about $10 would even be better, and with the capabilities described it fits exactly what I want to use it for.

Funny… but yes it would.
The idea of having the same dev environment to code simple stuff is almost all that matters. :slight_smile:
I know you will never make it because its not commercially feasible, so we will keep on using Arduino

$10 .NET board with click headers
$10 .NET board to replace micro:bit

I am beginning to like the sound of this!

I would love a super cheap cpu, like maybe 5$? Maybe based around something like the STM32F103C8T6, one of the most used STM32. This cpu only costs 3.6$ when buying it in 10 quantities from a reseller (here). Gonna be a lot cheaper when buying from ST and I think there would be space left for a margin for GHI so they can continue their awesome work :slight_smile:

This would make it easier to integrate sitcore into a small consumer gadget with a sales price of 100$ or less. At the moment, it isn’t feasible to sell something for 100$ or less if just your cpu costs 22$ already…

The reason I would pick a sitcore over a normal cpu is mostly because of the convenience sitcore brings. Its so easy to integrate OTA updates, the time to market is very very short due to the usage of C# instead of C and because I’ve written quite the code base, in shape of a class library, that I can just reuse again and again.

Wouldn’t that be nice but those chips can’t run a full os sadly

“Tiny IoT core” sounds great to me. I am very willing to trade in the “secure” in return for a bare metal .NET device that is as small as the FEZ stick or smaller, has wired ethernet (maybe even with PoE for ultimative greatness) and costs around 20$.

Wifi is okay-ish, but wired Ethernet is still way cooler! On the pins side, basically all I need is GPIO, SPI and I²C.