What’s the famous definition of insanity? 
Trying the same thing over and over again truly expecting a different result every time.
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Yep. So, if you never give up on one idea and move on to the next then you must be insane.
@ ianlee74, or you’re willing to die trying.
@ ianlee74 - You’d think that people would go for the cheaper options, but I’ve only sold (I think, it’s been more than a year) one of my ENC28J60 adapter boards.
One thing that really boggles my mind is the amount of GHI-worship that goes on here. I mean, I know that they’re the only real player in the Gadgeteer space, and nearly the only real player in the NETMF space, but seriously, last year around this time we had customers (us) bragging about the cards and gifts we sent to our vendor (GHI). How backwards is that? We send them cards and gifts to thank them for taking our money, and now we’re complaining about how much money they take from us for their products.
Head explodes
@ Mr. John Smith - You seriously must be joking.
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You don’t set up a PCB manufacturing shop to save shipping costs. GHI could simply cover the shipping costs of a VERY VERY LARGE number of purchases for what it would cost to set up another manufacturing facility.
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You’re impressed that your Fez Domino still works after two years? Really? Are you impressed that your other electronics don’t die after a few months or years? Are you also unaware of the issues that have cropped up with GHI’s products, both hardware and software, over the years?
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If you think there are no neat applications of NETMF, you’re not paying attention to this board. Also, if you think Microsoft will hand over control of the USB port of Windows Phone systems to the community, you’re insane. Lastly, if you think that a 3D-printed cradle, a couple joysticks, and a few buttons will turn NETMF into a PSP/DS competitor, then I seriously wonder about your grasp on reality. You do know that Android and iOS devices right now can use Bluetooth gamepads, right? There’s even an option (MOGA) for Windows Phone.
And where’s your shop? I kind of missed that…
It’s nice to see the discussion, but as there’s lots of talk about revenues and quality, I’d like to remind that my initial post was about reducing [em]cost[/em], not the [em]margin[/em] or quality. A few optimizations would benefit us all.
But reducing costs often reduces margin or Quality.
Latest proof is a new series of Samsung LED TV’s where some capacitors went bad just after turning it on for the 1st time.
Don’t drop the quality, the prototypes have to work and give a realistic reflection of the level of quality the final version and hence support estimates etc. If anything raise quality, make it easier for me to sell or otherwise promote my prototypes (if it doesn’t work I might as well use colored lego blocks and a lot of hand waving).
Costs are always an issue, but really its an issue of what do you get for the costs. Shipping costs are fine to a point (getting something from A to B is going to cost something), but really the Chinese fully understand that shipping costs are a barrier to sales and keep them as low as possible. Certainly the holiday sale with free shipping right now should prove to be interesting in the sense of how much will sales increase during the sale. I know I tend to hold off purchases till I have a bucket full to keep shipping costs down. I’ve got 30+ items in my cart now, so after a meeting I have on Saturday, perhaps time to put that order in and take advantage of the free shipping (includes shipping to Canada???).
Now someone made the comment of GHI worship and yes there would be some of that, but given GHI is the big dog in town, its natural. I’ve always been a supporter of third party modules, but even then shipping costs are a factor as sometimes shipping is more then the modules. I’ve tried to combine orders (eg had HughB ship modules I’ve bought from him to Justin so I could combine shipping for those with an order from Justin). Reality is shipping costs should be pretty much universal, for example it shouldn’t cost anymore to ship something from Sparkfun as it costs from GHI.
So why haven’t we seen more Gadgeteered prototyped projects on Kickstarter for example? We have seen lots of cool projects here but they seem to be one-ofs and that is about it, what is stopping some of these projects from becoming production products? For me the prototype is as far as I wanted to go, but perhaps its time to attempt the next step and see what the problem is, if in fact there is one. Is the cost of the production version prohibitive or otherwise difficult to achieve? Are the volume requirements unrealistic for a startup project? Or is IoT just a mythical beast which has been vastly over sold?
@ godefroi - explain this (related to your enc28 theory!!)
Digikey chip price in full reel of over 2000pcs is $2.36
Then add crystal, PCB, connector, assembly, cable …etc and the cost is nearing $$$ then add a huge discount for distributors and you will find that GHI is actually selling the module too cheap!
But then you look at eBay and it is complete selling for under $4! My only explanation is that the chip they use in china is not an original microchip part.
Now, let’s compare to another non china product https://www.sparkfun.com/products/765 and it is $35. Looks like we need to raise our prices not lower them.
Try to think more positive and you will see that GHI does a LOT of work for a little return, and that is we are the only company doing this! Business wise, we would make more money and it would be easier for us to just make arduino Shields :wall: maybe one day you will see what other see and you will send us gifts as well.
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Cheer up! It is a holiday season. It is customary in this country (and many others) to exchange gifts at this time of year. A customer appreciates its vendor and send them a gift. Nothing is wrong with that, unless you are a Scrooge.
I think GHI’s prices are low and sometimes lower than others. The closes price point that I’ve seen between Fez and Arduino is for the Arduino UNO vs FezCerbuinobee. $27 USD vs $40 USD and what’s the difference? Better processor (Add $6.17 USD) and SD card interface, and a USB Host Interface. Not to mention the additional I/Os.
That comes to up $6.83 USD of additional cost; which is more than worth it!
This is why I think that if the cost with Arduino were identical then people would have no excuse but to buy .Net over Arduino. This is why I think it’s bias against anything Microsoft (hence the C++ and JavaScript support comments).
Parallax can’t BASIC Stamps can’t even come close to these price points and they have been around for AGES. I never hear any talk about them. So it isn’t because Arduino was “first”.
Worse, now with Intel Galileo offering a mini-PCIe slot (PCIe gen 2 x1) for around $60 USD and you have to wonder where the price points should be.
Incorrect! Arduino Uno is for $12-something including shipping and import fees: http://dx.com/p/funduino-uno-r3-mega328p-board-for-hw-sw-engineers-development-tools-150802
Buying Cerbuino directly from GHI, it would be ~$55 for US customers, and ~$80 for EU customers. Distributors may make it cheaper, but there are no outstanding distributors in EU as of now…
@ Simon from Vilnius - That is a clone.
Here is one for $29.95
So?
It doesn’t make his statement incorrect.
Well, I can sell Arduinos for $99 and this would allow somebody somewhere compare Arduino and Cerberus and say that Arduino is three times more expensive. But that wouldn’t reflect the reality.
Did I miss something last year? Who was bragging about sending cards and gifts to GHI?
Cheap knock offs aside ([url]http://www.massimobanzi.com/category/hall-of-shame/[/url]), I was comparing the purest Arduino and Purest .NETMF I could find. No bells and whistles (like ethernet or wifi, or even USB host for Arduino). Just enough to use right out of the box (which excludes the Arduino micro and Cerb40)
Can you tell this to a student with $100 monthly income? 