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Lets take over the world


#1

There is a lot of stuff going on in Europe right now in the IoT arena, and I feel that someone in this community should participate in some of these very exciting stuff.

A fascinating vision, and some compelling specs, but needs a reality check: http://www.webinos.org/

An attempt to build some standards and other good stuff: http://www.theinternetofthings.eu/

Unfortunately I dont have the time right now.


#2

Gadgeteer isn’t going to take over the IoT world, it’s too expensive, too big, and consumes too much power…


#3

@ godefroi - I disagree. Gadgeteer is perfect for quick turn projects and very suited for more advanced applications. Yes not suited for a door sensor but very suited for the central control system for example, with display perhaps.

@ andre.m buggy? What is the better alternative? What bugs you have so we can work on fixing them?


#4

I still think Gadgeteer is in a good spot to be a major player in IoT as you can churn out prototypes faster then pretty much any other system. Of course we have to keep improving and kicking out cool stuff and of course beating the drum, and so we shall.

Now as for claims of Gadgeteer being expensive, my time is worth money, so Gadgeteer is a heck a deal cost wise given the speed I can work with it, toss in how quick and easy it is to use modules etc on different projects (I have 8 project boards going on at the moment and device/Gadgeteer stuff is on the back burner for me at this time thanks to a massive desktop project, but if I was using any other platform these device projects wouldn’t even be on a burner), Gadgeteer is unparalleled.


#5

@ andre.m - wait for what? What product you have planned and what bug is stopping you from completing your product? We are here ready to take care of any concerns but your comments just make netmf and gadgeteer look bad to new users! I am sure you like ot see more new users, not less!


#6

I love NETMF and Gadgeteer, even when it’s frustrating at times…

I think the confusion is how people compare Prototyping with real commercial product…
this platform is for prototyping and not for commercial use, yes they are companies who are successfully using it in commercial products which requires resource internally as is the case with any commercial grade product…

Prototyping means, issues, changes in API, bugs, simply be ready to think out of the box… once you get a prototype functioning (Not perfect) otherwise we would call that a commercial product, you move to your next step, hire a team of professionals to fix any bugs and limitations, produce your working commercial product… in other words YOU CAN"T DO IT ALL ALONE…

yes I have ran into issues and have been frustrated and been trying other alternatives but somehow I always manage to find a way to get things done and learn a THING or TWO on the way…

If you come into this world with this approach and understanding I think you will enjoy it more… but if you are coming to this thinking it would allow you to create the next big thing in one week well think again my friend.

with that said, my only wish is to make sure that all basic IoT stuff work out of the box… like Ethernet stuff should be solid… File system, CAN, i’m sure I missed a few…

I believe GHI have created enough modules and Boards to last us for years… and I think it is time to sit down ad re-look the basics and making sure they all work as expected…

Cheers,
Jay.


#7

Prototyping with Gadgeteer is pointless when none of the hardware, firmware, or software is any thing like what you’ll use in the end product.

Implementing a central controller on a NETMF board is uninteresting, there are vastly more powerful systems available at much more competitive prices that are infinitely easier to work with.

Most people will use a PC for the central controller anyway.


#8

I think most of the people on this forum are the ones who do find it interesting, otherwise they would be on another forum.


#9

@ njbuch - If you’re looking for cheap IoT, I think the NETMF platform is definitely in the ballpark. The CPU in the Cerb family is about $10 and is probably the sweetspot for a CPU capable of running a web server. Classic Arduino is a bit under powered and the 32-bit Arduinos have CPUs that are within a few dollars of the Cerb.

Look, if GHI could easily create a Cerb40 with a CC3000 on it for $40, it would likely be the best IoT plaform in existence.

I would love to see an STM32F4 variant with more flash (for web pages, see blue genie board) with onboard CC3000 with antenna on the PCB. And I would like to see Visual Studio be able to save included project files to the flash of the CPU. Imagine being able to save .htm and .js files in the project and have them accessible for streaming at runtime. Also, project settings should also be made to work in .NET MF by saving to the CPU flash. This is all do-able and should be a major goal of Microsoft and GHI.

Seriously, getting this right would really take over the world. IMHO.


#10

Gentlemen, firm yourself up! I did not start this thread for another discussion of Gadgeteering and the challenges GHI are facing today. This is about tomorrow.

I started it because we are in the middle of a fascinating move towards really small and really flexible ways of putting intelligence into all sorts of things. It’s getting smaller and more flexible everyday, and really soon we will see really small watches with amazing processing power and nice screens.

…and you are a really important part of that move.

I like Valkyrie’s way of thinking, more of that! We need to stick together, and work on this as a team. Your human capacity should contribute to solve issues and spawn ideas you think would be beneficial in the longer term. Gus already knows that there has been issues with some things and I expect him to deal with it in the best possible manner - I feel a strong presence of GHI when I have problems.

I love this forum, and I appreciate the help I am getting, and I love the Gadgeteer platform for prototyping. Prototyping means: A prototype is an early sample, model or release of a product built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from.

Stay cool.


#11

Why? No SSL?


#12

It just won’t happen. The Cerb40 alone is $30, and the CC3000 is$40 by itself. Even Adafruit’s CC3000 is $35.

GHI and Gadgeteer are driving the big, the powerful, the high-current. IoT is driven by the small, the inexpensive, and the battery-operated. Fundamental disconnect, here, in my opinion.


#13

Why would you just assume that? I secure my WAN facing web services with a public+private key encryption. It is quite secure. However, I would love to add the https module to the firmware.


#14

[quote=“godefroi”]

It just won’t happen. The Cerb40 alone is $30, and the CC3000 is$40 by itself. Even Adafruit’s CC3000 is $35.[/quote]

I disagree. A slightly large pcb to accommodate the cc3000 adds pennies to the cost. The cc3000 chip itself is $10 and the antenna, caps, and resistors add another $2. It can be done.


#15

It seems to me there is a bit of disconnect between some of the previous posts. I think folks might be talking past each other because we define our terms differently. The IoT is an ecosystem comprised of many individual parts from tiny wireless sensors up to the heavy iron in the cloud or data center. Gus did mentioned it towards the beginning of the thread, NETMF is over kill for a wireless battery powered door sensor that has to have a battery life of a few years. Those type of tiny devices are not connecting directly to the Internet anyway. There is some type of gateway that connects the tiny low powered devices to the Internet at large. In my opinion NETMF fits very nicely in that gateway category. I suppose you could strip down a Cerb40 to its lowest possible power draw and connect it to a low power radio and get some extended battery life but that’s not what it is best at.

In my opinion NETMF has huge potential. Particularly if Microsoft would throw some more weight behind it. I would agree the NETMF might have too many layers of abstraction for some applications. But as with all engineering endeavors there are trade offs of time, money and resources. NETMF brings a community, largely driven by GHI, to help developers move their projects forward to success. NETMF has a good spot between the Ardunio and larger embedded OS’s like Linux\Android\WinCE.

NETMF makes prototyping and proof-of-concept easier than any of the other platforms. All the modules use readily available parts that can easily be purchased and assembled on application specific boards after the prototyping/proof-of-concept phase. Every processor is capable of running bare metal without NETMF if you don’t like the layers of code that it adds.

I appreciate njbuch’s challenge for us to see the future and maybe see the little project we are hacking together as something a little more than a hobby or the solution to our immediate problem. There is a lot of innovation being done by the little guy in his garage, basement or living room. It would be cool to see the NETMF community take more of a visible lead in the IoT arena.

Just my .02 worth, sorry for the long post.


#16

@ skeller - thanks for helping me, that was the best post in the thread! :clap:


#17

@ skeller - well explained, thanks and couldn’t agree more.


#18

What if one wanted their Cerb IoT based device to post to an Internet hosted web-service? It would have to be in clear-text.


#19

Yep, that’s exactly what I was saying.

The problem here is that in this space you’re competing with things like Raspberry Pi, which is much cheaper, vastly more capable, and has all sorts of things like USB (host and client), ethernet, video and audio output, and SD built in. While NETMF is easy to develop for (for us .NET developers, anyway), it still has a stiff uphill battle.


#20

@ godefroi - would it be possible to deploy .NET MF on the Rasberry PI?