FEZ QuadCopter startup

Lol, just finished my remote control today. Quite some work getting the FEZ Panda 2 connected to the LCD within that small box and also having the Xbee in as well. Used an IDE cable, stripped all the wires, soldered pins on each wire and connected that to the FEZ. But it works, I got a slider on the left, 2 analog joysticks, 3 buttons and a poorly working touchscreen.

Created a communication protocol allready and the remote works fine on my robot. Now just to build the quad ;D

I intend to use the slider for altitude on the quad. Just set to the desired altituded and move around. Do have to improve the programming a bit. The Fez Touch is extremely slow and while writing to the touch the remote becomes unresponsive to any other commands.

Also the bi directional communication on the XBee is not working, only from remote to robot but for the quad I want the quad to communicate back to the remote and write stuff on the LCD. I should have bought the series 1 instead of the series2 Xbee.

But I still have some time left because my HobbyKing stuff has been stopped by customs >:( Mongoose is on its way though. IanLee, any news on that part allready? I’ve read a lot about magnetometer problems with the mongoose lately. Hope it’s a callibration issue and works fine afterwards.

Looking great!

Lookin’ good! Mine still looks like this…

I just got a new round of parts in from HobbyKing (after a 2 month wait!!!) I’ve neglected the copter while I was waiting and took the time to finish up some other things. I’ve got this week off and if I ever actually get some time off then my plan is to get started up on the copter again. Devhammer gave me a little pep talk last week that has me eager to get it working. I’ll definitely keep you informed. I wouldn’t be overly concerned about minor issues with the magnetometer since it’s probably the least significant part of the IMU as far as stabilization is concerned. The last time I checked, the developer of the Mongoose was working on an update to solve that problem.

Hi All,

I’ve just finished my first mongoose project (tnx ianlee74 for the mongoose tip!). There is an bad mobile phone quality image attached for illustration. It was surprisingly simple reading the mongoose values, but off course I do have some new questions.

I created a cross with a multi color led on each end. If you hold it perfectly stable all leds will be green. If one of the axis drop out of balance, that ax will be blue. I intend to make the leds blink slower / faster if the difference becomes smaller / greater for the next version.

This works perfectly and extremely fast. As soon as I move the cross a bit I can immediately see that I should correct one of the axis. Within code I also know the amount of degrees I should correct.

So an ax will have 2 legs running from the center. I think I should just increase engine speed if one of those legs get below the stable degree if Im not at the set altitude or decrease speed of the engine that gets above the set altitude. That should probably keep it stable in the air (Ill worry about moving later).

I already use PWM to control the leds so it should not be difficult to control the engines later on. I cant imagine that the FEZ would have any trouble with GC or anything performing this simple job (the mongoose already delivers angle values for pitch, roll an yaw from 180 to 180).

But deciding the altitude is a lot more difficult. The mongoose returns a pressure value and thats far from accurate. Ive had all leds blink 3 times if the pressure difference gets higher than 10. If so, Ill set that pressure value as the next reference value, so it will blink again after pressure differentiates more than 10 again.

Sometimes this happens 3 times within 10cm, sometimes only after moving up/down by a meter and sometimes once while walking it down the stairs. So my conclusion is that its terrible for deciding altitude and creating stabilization logic based on this altitude (pressure) value would probably be a bad idea.

But I cant think of any alternatives as well. Most altitude sensor has a range between 20cm and 2 meters. I intend to fly a bit higher. I dont think other pressure sensors would be more accurate. How should you normally get an accurate altitude value? Should you use the pressure value more like an indication for Im now probably heading up or probably heading down?

The yaw does seem to work very accurate, If I point the cross to a specific angle all leds blink red twice and its surprisingly exact on the angle every time. I first tought I should exactly place the mongoose at the center, but its placed without exact measurements and still does a great job correcting the axis.

I am thinking about a calibrate function that saves the stable degree values as reference information later on.

Now to build the actual quad frame before the engines arrive :slight_smile:

Thanks for reading this!

mammaplank, glad to hear you’re making great progress! For low altitude hovering you will need what is called an “ultrasonic rangefinder”. Sparkfun or adafruit should have them. Looking good! I’m eager to see your next update.

Tnx again for your quick help. Just read about them, they can indeed “see” distances between 6cm and 6m and cost only 12 euro’s and it seems a lot more accurate :D. That should give me a stable quad for the first 6 meters.

Another question. I’m ordering new engines (received my order but they are extremely small). Just looked at Radio Control Planes, Drones, Cars, FPV, Quadcopters and more - Hobbyking.

They have a weight of 134g and :
Propeller 11x4 GEAR: 10.7v 40A - 2.3Kg tract - is the best compromise

Does that mean one of them could potentially lift 2,3Kg? That would be amazing. Can I multiply this by the amount of engines (4 for my quad) so could it actually lift around 8Kg?

I’d like to create a stable quad, will not be doing any crazy stuff with it but do want to add other things like camera’s etc in time. These engines look great for the job but I can hardly imagine they can indeed lift that much weight.

Thanks again :wink:

I’m certainly no expert in the meaning of any of the prop numbers so I can’t say what it’ll do. But, you will certainly have no problem carrying a camera or other small add-ons. I’ve seen quads carry 4-10 lbs. Of course, a lot of this will be dependent on how much your frame, batteries, and total weight of the copter ends up being. I think you’ll be surprised how heavy they are when fully assembled.

Tnx,

I’ve now ordered this setup:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18159__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_3530_1340kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html

With these props:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11332__9x5_Propellers_Standard_and_Counter_Rotating_6pc_.html

Found that combination with the help of http://www.flybrushless.com/ Another great site i’ve found is http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm

If I understand correctly I’ll be able to lift 1,4Kg per engine and each engine only has a 76g weight. They pull a maximum of 29,5A, so a 5000mAh 40C battery with a plush 30A ESC should be able to let it fly for about 15 minutes, pulling 5,6Kg minus my quad itself what would probably be around 2Kg. So more than enough to take a camera with it as well.

Sounds too good to be true, but if it’s performing half as good I’m still happy :slight_smile:

I have decided to jump into this boat as well. I am taking my 20 years of RC high power boats, cars, Planes and Heli’s experiences with me :wink:

There are a few things that will do this. I have had it happen to me and all i can say is that thank GOD i was outside when it happened. a 5000 mah, 4S 40C battery is VIOLENT when this happens.
The main thing to be careful of is:

#1) Battery puncture.
#2) Draining the battery at to high a discharge rate.
The main thing to watch for is battery puffing or swelling, if you pack starts to swell, get it outside ASAP! Dont charge a swelled battery, and dont use a swelled battery.
I may sound over paranoid about this, but after seeing my swelled pack burst into a 3’ blow torch like flame for 15-20 seconds then put out a thick nasty smoke for another 20 sec. you dont want that puppy to do that in the house.

Many quality ESC have a feature built into them in the event the PWM signal is lost they will go to 0% throttle. I would recommend that you bench test the ESC & motor to verify the one you have will do this, as this is probably one of the most important things to have as a fail safe.

This is my idea. Flown many helicopters and i have always been impressed with the gyros in them.
For some time now they have the Head Lock gyros, which are awesome. In mine i plan on using 2 for both axis to help keep the load off the CPU for level flight at a minimum.
gyros have a wide range of cost and options. But a friend of mine replace his $120 gyro with this one and said it worked very well for him. So i order one for myself to try. will let you know how that works if interested.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15318

As far as motor and prop combinations go, this can be quite a challenge. For this i am going to be using my experience from all the planes that i have had. The ones that used the lowest C rating battery and yet could VTO with great authority is the motor prop combinations i will try for my first one.

Also, i plan on doing this as well, Cannot take credit for it though as i seen this done somewhere on the net. He took a large round flat disk and placed it on the floor, from the center of the disk he attached a line to the CG center of the quad copter. Then again from the CG point at the top was another line to the ceiling. It was suspended a few feet off the ground. This method was used to test it level flying and reaction to a bump. I thought it was a good idea.

Keep this in the back of your mind for first flight (I can tell you this from flying heli’s, ) when you throttle up to the point when the craft becomes light, there will be allot of ground turbulence which will cause the craft to act funny making the pilot think there is something wrong. when indeed there is not. So many new RC heli pilots loose confidence because they think that they can merely take off slow and when se becomes light she leans one way or the other and just acts strange. They try to compensate with the sticks but there is just no real way to do that. So thy give up and thing there is something wrong with the craft or that they just suck. In actuality its best to get off the ground a bit quick to about 1’ - 2’ first. That low level 1" - 5" ground hovering will cause the craft to sway, list, and do all sorts of strange things. Though the bigger the blade span, and heavier the craft this disappears.

30A for a motor means 120A for 4 motors that could lift 5.6Kg. 120 amps will drain the 5Ah battery in about 2.5 minutes if the battery would maintain the voltage and the efficiency of all the other stuff is 100%. Also the life-time of the battery drops very fast when you discharge it with such a high intensity, after a few cycles of this you will soon need to replace the battery.

I was interested in building a tri/quad/hex-copter but it’s way to expensive for me.

Hi Jdal,

Thanks for your message and help! And good luck with this adventure as well, hope to read more about your progress soon.

I’ve seen some youtube videos about exploding batteries…, indeed want to prevent that from happening at home. Though it would allow my wife to re decorate again.

Switching the ESC to 0% trottle would probably have the quad fall from the sky. I’'m still considering parachutes to fire in case of emergency somehow and I’ve read about a battery indicator with the FEZ, would be nice if I could send the remaining battery time to my remote with FEZ touch.

I’ll buy a 50C battery to make sure it’s not overloader (using 4 30A engines max).

I’m real happy with the mongoose, great tip from IanLee. It’s a lot more expensive but it’s returning all values in degrees to the FEZ and also has pressure and magnetic meassurement. However i’m still very interested to see how these gyro’s work for you. I intend to make more quads later :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope to make the quad fly and stabilize by itself because i’ve never flown anything before. Will the 9x5 props be a bit stable?

Can you tell me what engines / props you will be using? And what weight do you expect to lift with them?

Hope to hear from you :slight_smile:

@ godFather89, thanks for the info! I completely miscalculated and forgot to devide by 4 :-[. This will indeed lower the flight time quite a bit. But still, 2.5 minutes at full load…, perhaps it will take 15A without the 2Kg extra weight that I don’t have at first so I can fly for 5 minutes. But I guess I need an extra 5000 mAh battery for this, I do have the lift power, so it’s possible. Thanks for correcting me :stuck_out_tongue:

I did thought those batteries were made to discharge at these rates. Would be bad if they die this easilly after some charges. Otherwise this is indeed an expensive hobby.

jdal, it’s good to have someone with you experience involved in the project. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. My project has been on hold for a few months but I installed all new ESCs last weekend (went with Turnigy Plush 30A this time) and I hope to start making progress again soon.

I’ll add a little to the story of the Li batteries being explosive. My uncle build a brand new two story three car detached garage last summer. A few weeks later, he had left a cordless drill Li battery charging when he left and it exploded and caught the garage on fire. The fire burned the garage to the ground and the flames jumped over to his house and burned it 3/4 to the ground before the fire dept got it out. Thank God for insurance but that was a tough way to learn the dangers of Li batteries. I would go as far as recommending to put them in a metal can when charging. Definitely do not charge/use without human supervision.

mammaplank,

I have a box of motors here and props to test with. My plan is to use one of my smaller 3D plane props and motors. Because the small one had a 20AESC in it as i want / need to keep the current down. if one motor pulls +25A, thats +100A total. To get a battery that can sustain that in the real world is VERY costly. I say real world, because most of the batter sticker are BS china crap WAY over rated for what they can do. Best thing to do is look into the 3D planes and see what they are using for the prop / engine combo as that is a tried and proven setup. You can always tweak the prop size and pitch from there.

Check these sites out to help figure motor / battery /prop combo. Will give you static thrust.

[url]http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp[/url]

and

[url]http://adamone.rchomepage.com/calc_motor.htm[/url]

Not sure if this helpful.

$999 for a hexacopter kit.

edit — $2,500 for a full kit (including the transmitter and receiver)

Hi mhectorgato,

It is a nice deal, but it will take away all of the fun in creating the thing. And it´s not based on the FEZ microcontroller. I´ve got a lot of things to test and programm in mind and can best do so in C#. By creating everything myself it should be easier to understand the whole thing later on and make it better.

I have no doubt that I will eventually spend a lot more than this $999 for a less functional device, but it´s the learning and creating that will be most fun.

It is a nice link though, if you only need it to do the job.

You should be able to have a very functional copter for about half that price in parts if you DIY. Or at least that’s about where mine is at and it has most everything I’ll need for a long time. Over time I’m sure I’ll spend more than that by re-doing some things such as building a lighter frame or maybe adding 2 or 4 more motors. This also includes the money spend on developing my own remote.

Oh I agree completely!!

That link was just a reference point of how a similar product was being put together. Sometimes I do that and say “I never thought of doing it that way”.

What are you planning for this? A typical RC remote or a FEZ based device?

It’s currently a Panda-II remote using XBee. It will be a universal remote for all my projects. So, the idea is that it will eventually support not only XBee but also Bluetooth, RF, WiFi…anything a project might be controlled by. I also plan to upgrade it to Hydra with a capacitive touchscreen as soon as Gus releases the screens… :wink: