More on this it would be logical to have open debates first and then vote. Now for plain programmer Joe it is decision between thing that is used daily (USB) and some bizarre acronym (RLP). And he will choose USB. Even having USB means a little or no space left for specific drivers, so little use. Those who want USB flash storage may get themselves ALFAT 
but ditching RLP you severely limiting platform possibilities, legacy support and platform distinct features. As an embedded programmer Iāll say you this, while I love new features, I also hate to fix what was already working. Hell guys if you have some Ideas at first discuss it internally, then privately with your main customers and senior members, and only then go to public with public vote if it still needed. Hitler went out to rule Germany through popular vote, was it any good?..
[quote=ājb.lightconā]Hitler went out to rule Germany through popular vote, was it any good?
[/quote]
Are we really comparing āUSB vs RLPā to Hitler? This was supposed to be something fun that inspired some of the good back-and-forth that I have read so far but I think that statement is a little too much. I would also note that we have had plenty of internal conversations and again we thought we would through it out there to see if someone in the community brought something up that we hadnāt thought ofā¦
Looks like somebody forgot history
Thereās a method that has been invented since forever: separate dll. But may I remind you the official topic, which is āUSB host vs RLP, [em]pick one[/em]ā?
@ Simon from Vilnius - You reminded me and you picked one, in fact I think in you picking one and speaking on it helped the debate.
But again I donāt see how this conversation is comparable to anything related to Hitler. And if you want a business or other members to take you seriously then that is not a comparison that should be made. And let me clarify that this is my opinion and not those of the GHI Electronics or its affiliates. 
@ Simon from Vilnius @ andre.m - See how distracted we have already gotten, now lets get back on track and talk about USB Host vs RLP. 8)
Jeez guys squeze your brains into your fists and think for a minute ā Hitler was elected in perfectly democratic elections, and the whole moral is that you[em] canāt rely on the crowd blindly, because the crowd is stupid and doesnāt understand a thing[/em].
So, once again. Why a separate dll [em]is not[/em] an option, but dumping RLP [em]is [/em]an option?
And another thing: if USB is so RAM hungry, then what is the point in putting it into core features and keeping RAM occupied and mostly doing nothing?
@ Simon from Vilnius - With that being said I agree with my coworker Dat and vote for RLP. Also as Gus stated earlier we just want one firmware that works flawlessly, remember the days of āFreakinā Easyā, thatās what we are going back to. The very foundations that built the company to begin with.
Rlp uses more ram than usb! Mainly due to the memory region dedicated to hold the user application.
Is there a reason to assume that USB-Sticks are more reliable than SD-Cards on the Cerb family? That would be a strong, but perhaps the only, argument for me towards USB.
Could you provide exact numbers? That is some crucial info for this argument.
If RLP takes more than USB host, and mosttly because of the 12kB reserved in RAM, I assume USB needs somewhat ~10kB or so. A quick check on Cerberus gives me ~64kB of free RAM. With USB host, number drops to 54kB. Is that such a problem that itās worthy to remove one of the more important features in a battle against Arduino?
Dear lord.
There are pros and cons to both. For the tiny board it is, I would come down on RLP. Keep in mind, I barely ever use the feature, but in my mind it makes more sense for this board than USB (which I use A LOT).
Iām glad to see after all the fallout that has occurred recently GHI opened up some business decisions to the input of their users.
Iām less glad to see the comments from Simon from Vilnius. Iāve got to say this has colored my view of you pretty negatively.
āThe first person to compare something to Hitler lossesā rule has been around for a long time. Defend your point if you like. Pick apart the opponentās case, if you must. But really? Hitler?
And, for the record, NETMF and Arduino arenāt in competition anymore than motorcycles and sedans. Sure they both provide transport but with very different methods and target demographics.
Ok, Iāll over here, off this topic now.
People need to get over this Hitler thing. The poster did not compare home to RLP or USB or anything even close. I guess the Hitler thing was just used as a historical point of reference that everyone would know. Personally I donāt think it was a very good example, but I prefer people being able to speak there mind than us all living in fear that we may say something to offend those that are too easily offended. I note that the newbie poster has not posted anything since and that is certainly a bad thing.
The better question is whether or not good products can be designed by large committees. For this specific case I generally come down on the side of the benign dictator. This is because good product design is about complex technical tradeoffs that as a are would take too much time for a large group to really understand.
For a single issue vote it is not a problem.
For the Panda 3 discussion thread it is more complex as the tradeoffs mean that some people (maybe even the majority) will not be happy with the outcome. Itās certainly worth asking, but at some point they need to go into dictator mode and pick a subset of the requirements that they want to address.
Putting tin hat on now.
Going to vote for RLP
Implementing a feature (RLP) is a kind of promise to the customers that it will be usable in future. Taking such feature away destroys the work of people and makes them disappointed. Too many features of GHI-products have already been taken away in the last months. Applications using USB host on the Cerb familiy donāt yet exist. If somebody really needs it, he can use another platform (FEZ Cobra II)
I just found out that the option to choose between ethernet and non-ethernet-firmware is not available anymore in version 4.3ā¦ Is it included in the latest firmware or not?
If ethernet is included, I would prefer leaving the ethernet option out of the firmwareā¦and include RLP and USB host. Ethernet could always be included as a separate library (I use the wifly-module for intenet applications).
I have voted for usb-host as I would like to use it for storage of large amount of log data ; the sdcard was not reliable and is not suitable as a user friendly removeable device.
Unfortunately, itās only 4 weeks since Cerberus got fully-fledged RLP, so we canāt say there are many customers using it. However, those customers who used RLP on other GHI platforms, may start migrating towards Cerberus, because it is many time cheaper and easier to work with. I personally have a project I was thinking to move from G120 to Cerberus, and that is, bigger or smaller, a financial danger to GHI.
The sad part is that even USB Host proponents donāt realize that if the votes become a reality, GHI can drop USB Host feature anytime in the future, too. And, given the talks about Panda III, I would not be surprised if the whole Cerberus family disappears one day without a noticeā¦
@ Simon from Vilnius - as explained before, we consider modules as accessories so they maybe discontinued or changed depending market demand but as the core products, we try to keep everyone informed and have a compatible replacement if possible. Either way, we want to be more communicative in the future.