Solar Roads Raises 1.4 in one month

@ godefroi, The road melts the snow for itself, why would you need a plow :slight_smile:

Lol, not here, it doesn’t. There’s a lot of places in the country where it would take quite a bit of power to keep the roads clear. In West Yellowstone, Idaho, for example, they don’t even bother plowing the roads in the winter.

The other problem with this is that the places that would need the most power to keep roads clear (northern latitudes) would also receive the least sunlight during the times they’d need the most road-clearing power (winter).

Not saying it couldn’t be done, just that it might be easier said than done.

@ godefroi, True, True.

The solution for Europe is to place the panels in the deserts of north africa and build better infrastructure to transport it north. The idea is to use non agricultural land at low latitudes. The other big issues to solve are what to do at say dawn and dusk when demand is high and supply is low. The current solution seems to be to build more gas turbine power plants.

It sounds like his plan is to start with parking lots and driveways. For those applications it just might work.

Traffic is slower so noise isn’t really a big issue. Snow removal could be dealt with more easily. (I know they are heated but for some northern climates that might not be cost effective.)

Just thinking about the average Walmart parking lot. Having a the smart panels would allow them to do some pretty cool things. Parking and traffic flow could be reconfigured during the busy seasons like Black Friday. The spaces that hold shopping carts could alert staff when carts need to be brought in. I am sure they would figure out a way to monetize it as well.

My local Walmart would need about 83,000 panels. (assuming an 18" square) It would be interesting to see how a low power embedded network, wireless or otherwise, would work in actual application.

83,000 panels is a lot of panel at what cost? Would Walmart front up with the cost? I can see a driveway might be cost effective as the driveway is likely empty during power generating hours.

In addition to the panel cost a concrete foundation will still need to be poured. Concrete is more than a typical asphalt parking lot. Much better life but hard to justify. So you’re not even saving the cost of the basic parking lot. Same issue with the roads.

The only cost justification is based on the power that is generated over the life of the product. (10 years, 20 years?)

This free eBook is well worth a read on the various options for renewable energy.

Chapter 6 and Chapter 25 talks about various solar harvesting methods. Chapter 19 is also well worth a read and debunks the myth that “Every little helps”.

http://www.withouthotair.com/Contents.html

It’s not about running out of space, but the wise use of space we are currently using.

Just as you complain about how NETMF is inefficient with clock cycles :wink: filing the desserts with panels will cause other environmental issues.

I agree about the snowplows — I don’t have confidence in these panels to melt off inches or feet of snow. Especially in those cases, as they won’t be generating electricity, so the power would need to come from somewhere else.

@ mhectorgato - I would assume some sort of battery back up system would be used to run the roads at night. It also would not have to melt all of the snow, just enough to make it easy to push off. Instead of plows, a modified version of a street sweeper could possibly be used. Also, since the road itself will never have anything frozen on top of it (even if it is just a few mm), you eliminate the need for road salt.

Ah, but storing solar energy is the problem. If this was not a problem Kenya would be the worlds #1 energy exporter.

Like was said earlier, though, the times where the most melting power is needed are the times that the least solar power is available (night, when it’s cold, and in the middle of snowstorms).

Also, my driveway is situated such that it is shaded by the house for about half the day. That wouldn’t work so well for me.

So true. The world doesn’t have an energy GENERATION problem so much as it has an energy STORAGE problem.

Hydrocarbons are a pretty dang effective way to store energy, unfortunately.

@ godefroi, That’s true. However there is this one company that is working on “growing” oil in the deserts, as a means of solar energy storage. They grow green alge with sunlight and CO2 from coal plants which can then be directly processed as crude oil!

@ godFather89, That video has alot of logical facalices. It’s only good point are regarding the visibility of LEDs in the daylight.

Would you care to point out one of the fallacies?

I don’t want to because there are so many, so I only pulled out the good point that he made about the LED’s not visible in daylight.

Just to name a few:

[ol]
That the glass would cost 20 Trillion. The glass he showed has good optical clarity, is being sold 1 unit at a time and is being sold over the internet. These are all reasons why it cost so much. Assuming low optical clarity, manufactured at near cost in thousands of units at a time and “not being sold over the internet”, perhaps the glass cost could be 1 Trillion. Further, who says you have to pay this upfront? This can be amortized of 100 years; which is how long I think it will take for these dream to fully realized.
Asphalt can be recycled. He makes it sound like we’re never going to run out of asphalt, when the very article he’s referencing to assert that asphalt is recycled says that the asphalt from road works (where they have to dig it up) is what is recycled, not the asphalt that is lost due to traffic wear.
That it takes as much energy to raise water from 0 to 70 degrees (Centigrade) as it does to raise ice (which is water at 0) from 0 to 0. I hope this one is obvious. I think he just got some math wrong there.
That glass stones wear much faster than rock stones therefore a glass road will wear faster than an asphalt road. Please compare glass to asphalt not glass to stone.
That parking lots would be covered with cars in the day and empty at night. This varies greatly on the place the parking lot is located! A parking lot at a night club, would be vacant in the day. A parking lot at a mall during the week when people are at work (elsewhere) would also be mostly vacant during the day.[/ol]
(I’m tired typing)

Actually, he is correct. By the way, that’s one the most annoying narrative voice I have ever heard :slight_smile: Couldn’t even finish watching the video :slight_smile:

In order for your solar panels (or your LEDs for that matter) to be useful, you need glass with good optical clarity. You also need it specially textured (which the glass he showed wasn’t). We don’t know what the glass would cost, but we know that it’s not currently available as a mass-produced commodity, therefore, it would be MORE expensive than what is commonly available now, not less.

Asphalt is 100% recyclable. It’s pretty much tar and gravel, and the tar is a petroleum refining byproduct. As long as we’re using fossil fuels, we’re not going to run out of asphalt. Do you have any evidence that a significant amount of asphalt is lost to road wear?

I think you’re wrong. It takes 80 calories per gram, or 334.72 kilojoules per kilogram, to make the phase change from ice to water. [em]That’s roughly 93 watt-hours.[/em] To quote Phase Changes, “Transitions between solid, liquid, and gaseous phases typically involve large amounts of energy compared to the specific heat.”

The stuff that wears in asphalt is gravel. Little stones. Glass has a crystalline structure that makes it brittle. Gravel is generally an amalgam, where cracks are much less likely to propagate (and can’t propagate across individual stones regardless).

How many night clubs are there, compared to parking lots overall? There point there was, covering the parking lots with overhead conventional solar panels is cheaper, more efficient (because the panels would never be shadowed by a car), produces more energy (because the panels can be angled toward the sun), and can be done RIGHT NOW. No IndieGoGo needed. Plus, when you get in your car, it’s nice and cool, because the sun’s been kept off it.